So a Dutch friend of mine just got engaged. She’s in her mid thirties and has been with the Dutch man in question for many years, so it shouldn’t really come as such a surprise. But it did. It did, because she’s been living with this guy for over 10 years, they have 2 children together (not to mention a fairly pricey downtown Amsterdam apartment), plus 3 pesky cats, so why would marriage suddenly be important now?
“After the birth of our 6th child, I was finally ready to make a commitment!”
Simple: because they are doing things the “Dutch way“. You know that old school- yard rhyme: Sally and Ryan sitting in a tree. k-i-s-s-i-n-g. First comes love, then comes marriage…then comes baby in a baby carriage [insert rampant girlie giggles and screams]. Well, in the lowlands, the rhyme somehow got a little reversed over time. Not one, not two, but countless of my Dutch friends/colleagues have just recently gotten around to the marriage part AFTER already having the love, (the house), and the baby carriage(s).
The highly complex mathematical formula here in the lowlands appears to be: attraction + love + buying a house together + having babies = marriage. Of course, ultimately, the order of this stuff doesn’t really matter. But I dare say I was certainly shocked to see loads of these very rational, down-to-earth female Dutch friends soooo overwhelmingly excited about their romantic proposals and upcoming nuptials. I just figured since they already had some major life commitments together, the formalities of marriage just weren’t a priority. Silly me! Seeing them giddily jumping around, showing off their new glittery engagement rings was a very un-Dutch sight!
We’ve said it once and we will say it again, Dutch people like to do things differently. They certainly have their own little quirks. Take their beloved hagelslag, their birthday oddities or even their sharp-tongued “directness” as examples. So it shouldn’t come as a shock that they’ve somehow gone and reversed the age-old order of love and marriage. Is it just to spice things up? Just to buck conventional trends? Another form of Dutch practicality and pragmatism? We haven’t figured it out yet, but maybe you can!
Just let me say Dutch people are kinda great. This Spaniard just hope my Dutchman won’t wait too much long to get engaged
Ah, battle of the nationalities! You might want to give him some hints then, because he won’t propose out of the blue. Good luck!
Hints don’t work with men. Especially not dutchmen. Haven’t you read the ‘directness’ story yet?
This blog is wonderful! Even having lived outside of the Netherlands, it still throws up quirks and habits that I hadn’t realized were specifically Dutch (I thought talking about the wheather was a worldwide favourite passtime?) But to get back to the subject at hand: Most of my Dutch friends have in fact gotten married before having babies. But not all, including myself (I’m a mother without a wedding band). As to why – I think it’s to do with economics and independence. It used to be that parents paid part of the wedding cost, but adult children prefer to pay their own way and not be a burden on their parents. Getting married is expensive (don’t let people fool you that it’s more expensive to recognize and become a legal guardian of your child when it’s born out of wedlock. That cost adds up to about sixty euros in Utrecht. The expensive bit is going to a solicitor to sign the will, but then if a Dutchie marries they’d probably do that anyway). Also getting married is usually not necessary for any legal reason. Most people buy a house before having a baby and put in place the requisite legal framework at that time with a samenlevingscontract. So, really, why lay out all that money when you’re also planning on having children which are expensive enough on their own? But then, when a Dutchie has climbed a bit higher on the corporate ladder and their income’s gone up, they might realize they DO want to recognize and celebrate the love that connects their little nuclear family. That’s when they get married. In a deviation from Dutchness, there´s no pragmatic reason or practical use, it´s pure sentimentality. Dutch marriages usually are nothing but celebrations of love, which would explain why people go ga-ga over them. (Disclosure: I wouldn’t mind getting married but the father of my child doesn’t see the point. However, he has promised me he will one day provide the opportunity for me to wear a ridiculously expensive and utterly flattering dress, so I’m practising patience.)
Well, I got married for free, so that’s definitely cheaper than the 60 euros you are referring to
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For the rest I totally agree with your comment.
The persons just got engaged. You speak about marriage…. There can be a long time in betwwen again !
Its very easy you dont want kids?
get out your not married.
Was that English? Yikes. Grammar + spelling = important. Vooral als je een punt duidelijk wil maken in een andere taal.
Since moving to Nederland I have been amazed at the large number of parents who are well into their 30s, 40s or even later and yet have young children. I think that is a great phenomenon, because so many married couples in the US begin having children when they are too young, and the stress overwhelms them. Delaying marriage and child-bearing makes for more stable families.
It is so true! I happened to work with many Dutchmen, and this story repeates over and over again. I thought it was some particular charactersitics, but now I see that this is quite a common phenomenon really..
)
Thank you for the post!
to add to katrijn the samenlevingscontract provides you with all the legal bearings you need. Your registered as partners. And many young people sign a samenlevingscontract first and get married much further down the road.
Just as Katrijn says. Marriage is a celebration of love, the crown on the relationship, just to use a Cruiffian proverb. It is a reason to have a big party with everybody you love and/or was important in your life. To do it right costs serious money. This with the reasons named by Katrijn adds up to all commitments first, the formality (and most important the party!) of Marriage later.
May I add to everyone’s comments, that it’s really just more practical to get married once you have kids and a house. You already know you’re committed anyways (so, no risk there) and it only makes sense then to get married for financial reasons. But that doesn’t mean you can’t throw a gezellig feestje and have a romantic wedding.
More subject for your blog: stroopwafel (treacle), kroket and frikandel (croquette and meatroll? Idk.) They are all Dutch snacks.
There really is no need to get married, as long as you don’t have kids or a house together. That’s the rational part: the contract of matrimony is only useful when you reach that level of intertwinedness. But indeed: there’s even less of a reason not to throw a great party once you do!
If the ‘Dutch way’ is ‘to do things differently’, then I am more Dutch than anything else
Just be together and be happy.
I never believed marriage contributes in any way to the development of a relationship – married or not, if you love each other, if you commit to each other, if you are happy together – that’s it! The rest is a piece of paper. Sadly, in many countries that piece of paper buys you peace of mind in many financial ways – insurance issues, tax breaks, security for the child, serious illness, etc.
If in the Netherlands the infrastructure is such that I can avoid marriage – I would do so! Never mind that I have been married already twice (in different countries)…so, I think I did my share of weddings. They are beautiful, and very special, and there is something very powerful about exchanging vows in front of people….however, that’s about it. On another note – divorces are even more expensive and emotionally taxing than marriages…then why risk it
Seems to me like the dutch are actually Swedish
Or maybe they are Danish
I’m a bit confused by this post–I know plenty of people in Canada who do exactly the same thing: get married long after kids & house etc. have become part of their life. It seems pretty universal in the western world in my experience. It’s even funnier here in someways, because most women still stick to the tradition of having their father “give them away”–a tradition that boggles my mind at the best of times.
This is more Amsterdam than it is Dutch. You just need to come to Barneveld and the surrounding area to see the opposite effect.
Oh, and I’ve noticed this much more in Sweden/Iceland than in The Netherlands. Heck, it’s pretty common in the UK too.
Well, Barnevelt basically lies in the bible belt of the Netherlands, so it’s not surprising it is the opposite there. I happen to see the phenomenon in both the middle and south of NL, it’s not just Amsterdam.
There is a simple (legal/financial) reason that couples -that want to marry in the Netherlands- wait for so long. The marriage process in The Netherlands includes a contract that connects the partners, they even stay connected after divorce (in Dutch: partneralimentatie).
It could happen that the most earning partner has support the ex-partner for 12 years on a monthly basis by ‘giving’ the ex-partner over 50% of his/her salary…
alimony (spousal support) and child support exist many places
I’m married with my freedom. Ain’t no better partner.
It is just an old dutch custom. No children, no marriage. Look for another partner.
zie ook: http://www.jefdejager.nl/trouwen.php
Janneke
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I think it is pretty much an European thing, people first get a kid and see how it works before getting married.
People getting married nowadays are from a generation who grew up in a time when divorce became widespread and that the church (be it protestant and catholic) started losing influence.
Marriage has come from a necessary step toward getting a child to a nice to have thing you do to prove your love to each other.
And getting a divorce isn’t as easy as it seems, better be sure before taking the big steps!
If you’re in a new relationship with a Dutch man/woman, do not expect a marriage proposal any time soon. I really love your blog, by the way. It’s fantastic!
Dutch are not always very romantic.During our study, my girlfriend and me just agreed om getting married after we finished. And so we did. I never sat down om my knees for a wedding proposal but amlmost 20 years married very happy anyway
PS: the wedding itself was quite romantic. Don’t forget to visit my hometown Giethoorn when in Holland:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlhank/3768025943/
please write about bachelor parties!! its so funny
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Can someone actually teach me Dutch, please? I would really love it. I can’t find anyone who will teach me.
Your question raises the question, do you mean you’d like to be taught dutch, the language or do you want to be taught how to behave like a dutchie? If the language, well.. I’m sure you should be able to find a teacher somewhere (unless you’re in the arctic circle somewhere) else if you meant how to behave like a dutchie,.. I’d say you’ve got all your study material right here on this blog ;P
Must be an agenda thing.
I am Dutch and currently engaged. The generation of my parents where young in the 60′s. Looking and people of my generation, almost all their parents got married after knowing each other for a short time and then quickly got divorced. It was not uncommon when I was at school that 70 % of the children in the classroom had divorced parents.
Maybe that is just my experience but I see that many people of my age are extremely careful with engagements, seeing the results of a divorce first hand. At least that counts for me.
It’s an interesting phenomenon. Let’s be real, sex and marriage changed in the entire world once birth controll came about. The only social motivation remaining is the church and God.
Most of my Dutch in-laws are married because they are Christisn, and the non practicing in-laws have too, but have divorced. It was surprising to see the Dutch women get excited about our wedding. They thought it was terribly romantic. Now I see why. We had a simple Christian marriage, very nice and not costly. Outside spiritual context it’s almost pointless, but society and children benefit greatly from marriage, and that matters. You can’t avoid problems and pain by avoiding marriage, but you can delay maturity.
For a young couple nowadays what is the most important?
1. Have a good steady job or a dependable income.
2. Buying a nice and comfortable house together with both their income.
3. Get everything legal on paper, which includes will and registered partnership.
4. After several years living in comfort and go on expensive trips and holidays, you start saving money.
5. With the saving money part, you also start considering having children or even start having them.
6. When the kids are a little older you need to move to a bigger house, have 2 cars and all kinds of hobbies…
Nowhere in this story is marriage needed. Marriage is for people who can afford it and have to much money to spend. That is, if you do a conservative marriage. There is also the option of going to the townhall on mondaymorning and just get it over with.
Of course there are the more conservative regions like the north of The Netherlands or the Black Belt, where they do it the old fashioned way. But they do everything the old-fashioned way there.
I do really believe that people who have only been in those parts have no objective and true view of the “evolved” and “modern” parts of our country.
I really like this blog, but I would love it if with your name you also have to write where you’re from. It would make so much difference reading comments from Dutchies here
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