This list would not be complete if we did not discuss the elephant in the room: Dutch directness. Now you’ve heard the rumours, the stereotypes, the hearsay, and the clichés -and I’m here to tell you, that like the majority of gossip, they are, in fact…all absolutely true! Dutch people are direct. Direct to the point of shocking at times. Direct to the point of “what the f@#$ did he just say to me?!?. If you plan to spend any times in the lowlands you had better get used to it, and fast!
Cultural misunderstandings?
This Dutch trait has gone by many names; call it what you will – abrupt, bad-mannered, barbaric, blunt, brusque, cheeky, crude, curt, direct, discourteous, forthright, frank, graceless, gruff, honest, ignorant, impolite, inconsiderate, insulting, intrusive, matter-of-fact, open, outspoken, plain, point-blank, raw, refreshing, rude, sincere, straightforward, surprising, uncouth or unmannerly. Essentially, the bottom line remains: the Dutch speak their minds.
Now, relax folks – don’t kill the messenger, I’m not saying it’s necessarily a bad thing. I’m just appropriating the Dutch culture and telling you how it really is. 
Dutch people don’t mince words. You certainly won’t find them biting their tongues, dying for the courage to finally speak freely. Don’t feel like hearing from your co-worker that she actually doesn’t think your new haircut is all that nice. Too bad. Don’t want to know that the speech you made and worried might have sucked, did in fact, suck, big time. Get used to it. In the Netherlands you are likely going to hear a lot of statements, that in other cultures politely fall into the category of “better left unsaid”.
Say what?
Whereas nationalities such as the British, Canadian and in some cases American, shy away from discussing “hot topics” such as religion, immigration, politics, money, etc. Dutch people revel in such lively and opinion-fueled debate. Dutch people value honesty and sincerity. What we (non-Dutch peeps) might consider rude or blunt, the Dutch perceive as honesty and truth. In fact, they pride themselves in having and expressing an opinion. Don’t have an opinion? Well, you had better get one fast!
The Dutch are in fact proud of all this directness and their very unique tell-it-as-they-see-it mentality. They often consider the English or American forms of politeness a sign of weakness, and reeking of insincerity and hypocrisy (two traits Dutch people absolutely despise). It turns out for the Dutch, there isn’t much in between those two startling extremes (directness and insincerity) and when faced with such a choice, there is obviously only one answer. Not quite sure which side you choose? Well, in the words of the famously rude direct Dutch speed-skater, Sven Kramer, “Are you stupid?”
Hello! I really like this number 4! I’m from Brazil, and expat in Nerderland and for many, many times the dutch directness put me down, but I’ve found myself lately being a bit more direct that I use to be after 2 years living in here. tot ziens
Agreed! If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em!
Oi Simone,
Onde voce trabalha?
Tambem sou brasileira e eu tive exatamente o mesmo problema. Mas depois que “I joined them”, eles nao gostaram muito of my directness towards them! Entao eles comecaram a falar que era o meu Latin Fire… haha…. Acredita!
Speak English? (Not rude, just Dutch
)
Simone e Rosana, eu sou do Belgica. O problema e muito reconhecer”äble”.
Guy
Hello Simone e Rosana,
Eu sou do Bélgica.
Eu diria que esse fenómeno, para mim tambem, e muito reconhecível.
Guy
Ah yes, directness. We’ve all been on the receiving end of this. At least you know where you stand!
Hi there,
Although I consider directness to be a good thing,it clears up things very fast you can be too direct. Sometimes it is very unnecessary to say certain things,you will only offend people for no reason.There are certainly a lot of people in the Netherlands that seem to think indeed that being rude is the same as being honest and that that is a good thing and without offending here,to me it looks like those people are more frequent in the western part of the Netherlands especially the Rotterdam area. That’s what I have experienced at least and I didn’t like it.
Greetings,
Joop.
I personaly think that can go both ways. Yes, sometimes it’s not cool to tell someone their speech sucked, and how/why it sucked. But if people keep saying it was a good speech the person in question might not know and never improve his speech-giving abilities. There is a difference between honesty and tactlessness though… Speak your mind but do it in a gentle way.
Hello!
What you said Joop is true. I am from Rotterdam , I’ve lived here my entire life. We are more direct than people from other sides of the country. Others and definitely non-dutchies would call us rude. We’re the kind that indeed would tell our friends: ‘Yes, you do look fat in those pants, if I were you I would never put them on again!…Ever!’
My friends, familiy and I like it this way. We know what we all think of each other and there is indeed no big elephant in the room. We know we can ALWAYS count on each other and be honest to each other.
I also have soms friends who live in the east, they told me to keep my opinion to myself, hahaha!
sorry, but it has really nothing to do with Rotterdam. Most people in Holland like to speak frankly, some don’t. You will find them all over the country, it is within the Dutch culture.
I’m from the Rotterdam area and if someone asks for my opinion or feed-back, I will give it to them (be it positive of negative). If it’s not a positive feedback and I think someone might have ‘lange tenen’, I will first ask “do you want the truth or a fairy tale?”
Uitstekend
Being Dutch I can relate to that. That ‘directness’ is not something we should be proud of. I’m not.
I am Dutch and, even though I (thankfully) wasn’t born there, I grew up in Limburg. I have to say that all the true Limburgers are nothing like the rest of the Dutch, they are much more like the Belgians (I lived in Antwerp for 3 years); closed, shy and not direct at all, at times not even willing to talk to strangers. Lots of people would do and say all kinds of things behind each others backs. It was annoying, stupid and tiring. Experiencing that made me very proud of the Dutch directness.
I hate Limburgers.
Well that’s a nice thing to say Hugo. I’m a Limburger, and to be honest I find that Limburgers are a great mix of Belgians and really dutch people. We are not as timid and shy as the Belgians, but not as rude (yes, I’m sorry) as people in other parts of the Netherlands may be. There is some gossipping, but I’m sure this happens everywhere.
Limburgers are not dutchies… I lived there for 5 years, the only week in the year they can be there (rude) self is with carnaval… After that, just act normal, then you’ll be crazy enough…
@ roos, some gossip? it’s only gossip in limburg, there is nothing else…
and i bet you are from amsterdam joop??
If you are direct and it hurts a persons feelings (and you know that) then that is being rude. Telling the truth requires some degree of tact and diplomacy.
“You are way too fat for that dress” or “that haircut makes you look like a chimp” will never endear you to anyone. Even if you are Dutch!
Having a point of view on any and everything is a good Dutch trait.
It amounts to “Its not what you say but how you say it.”
I totally agree. I would never say to someone your haircut is ugly even when I think it is maybe not all that flattering, even Dutch people would leave those things unsaid. But when you give a speech e.g. for work and it sucked one should be allowed to say (with some subtleness) that maybe this or that could have been better and should be improved for the next time..
Agreed. I’d go with “That dress doesnt show off your best features” and “I liked the previous haircut a lot better. Maybe i need to get used to this”
Tactful and honest
How much tactfull and diplomatic Dutch did you meet? >;-)
How does that work in their marriages? Are most Dutch happily married?
Off course
In a marriage you should say everything what’s on your mind to your husband/wife, right?
Yes, and I know it because I’m dutch and we like to tell each other the full truth
This directness also reflects in taking things literally.
Here are some good examples: http://www.minispace.co.uk/blog/images/Translation.htm
From a Dutch person: this list is very accurate!
Haha, very very true!
Yeah, but there’s also the fact that they don’t get super-defensive in return. They’re more likely to say something like “OK, well, that’s your opinion. I think it’s stupid. You think mine’s stupid. Let’s grab a beer.”
(Awesome site, dude. Love it!)
I often get a “let’s agree to disagree” and the conversation moves on..
The english are very petty they pretend to understand your opinion but eventually they spite you and talk about you behind your back and then they treat you bad. So much for being civilized society.
Sue, that is intelligent and honest! Thanks.
Love this site but I must say this….if you ain’t dutch, you ain’t much!….LOL! p.s. no rudeness intended.
Die zit !!
Using their directness to be indirect is an art. They can give ‘complimenten’ to which you don’t know whether to feel insulted or smile. How to say when a co-worker with a genuine smile in t he face tells you “you can wear something pretty every once in a while, ‘zeg’”. mmmmm Thanks?
Well I’m 100% sure he/she means you are too pretty to wear normal clothes and you should show yourself off and not hide.
That’s irony, wich is indeed an art. Not to be confused with sarcasm by the way.
I now tell people the truth and say that my middle name is ‘Cheeky’. And I often test their hearing, by saying ‘Goog Moaning’ when I first see them in the morning. Only one or two did hear what I really said…
Well lets not exagerate here. No one here says to a girl whose dress is making her look fat that she’s looking like a cow or hippo or something. I think the difference between the Dutch and the more southern and eastern cultures are that those cultures experience some criticism as an attack on their manhood or pride or something.
Giving it is all good and well…but can they take it? Can they handle the fact that Dutch music is crap, that their food sucks big time, their supermarkets are shite (I have been worshipping at the Temple of Waitrose for many years, so I know what an ace supermarket is), that the dress sense of the average dutch person would have people gasping with disbelief in most hip europan cities…
Music is one of our biggest export products. But if you are pointing at our schlagersingers and pirate artists I couldnt agree more with you. In fact in the music scene thats more hidden like jazz, ska, reggae, blues were quite good but that kinds of music never surfaced into the mainstream. I agree that our kitchen is crappy. A big reason for this is that the houseschool we once had in the time that only men had jobs, they simplified the recipes for the cookbooks so a lot of ingredients were written off the chart and started a downfall of the dutch cuisine. Not that it was ever very great but it was a lot better. But on the other hand we have a good ol’fashioned dutch candy tradition including ‘drop’. And lets not forget the deep fried snacks everyone loves here like frikandellen, kroketten, kaassouffles, bitterballen, nasischijven etc etc. And our beers have world fame. Every dutchman falls in love with the very huge supermarkets in France so believe me we want them here also. But there is a kind of supermarket war going on and oh well. I dont really care. Well and about the dress sense. I dont know. I think every european city is the same. Well one thing is that most women in Holland dont like that their women so if you mean that I will agree with you. There are way too many fat women in Holland. I dont care if that is sexist or not. Too many of them think they can get any guy they want by just looking plain and never wearing a nice dress or something like that. I had holidays in Prague and Krakow and most of the women there had a good figure, nice tan. Same goes for Croatia and Serbia. Seems women there like the difference between men and women.
To Gido (sorry for writing your name wrong below) don’t you think Dutch men should equally spend a little more attention to their appearance? When going out it’s not just the women that don’t wear fancy clothes, men wear sneakers, tshirts, jeans, etc. I think both sexes could dress up a little more. Although at the same time I like that fact that you don’t always have to fully dress up if you want to go out. And I think for example in England it has maybe gone a bit too far (sooooo much make-up, everyone has styled/curled hair, super high heels, super short dresses, etc) so we wouldn’t want to become like that either..
Also are Dutch women more often fat (and fatter) than men?
You tell ‘, Anna! The men’s sene of style is just as bad as the women’s. And Dutch women being fat? No, since the Dutch are the tallest people around, the women are big too. So Dutch girls aren’t as cute and petit as for example Italians. But bottom line is that the Dutch are behind when it comes to fashion. It’s a fact. (And also on cuisine, and super markets, and partially on music too.)
Greetings from a dutch guy!
Yeah, sorry, but I’m a Dutch woman and I’m pretty sure I can wear whatever the fuck I want. Women aren’t here solely to please you, sorry to break it to ya.
I totally agree with Anna!!! I have lived and been in many places in the world,….and yes in some other countries women do dress more sexy…one of the main reasons is that women dont get as much chances as us women here in Holland …we dont need to dress like that to get a man..we can take care of our selfs…as supposed to the women in some other countries!
And I have to say alot of times when I wear a dress and high heels..I feel overdressed cos most women here in Holland dont go all dolled up!(I dont mean the British way..cos they (I think) overdo it!!)
And one more thing…exactly what Anna said…dont you think loads of men here in Holland think its cool to have a beer belly…boys that are 17 years old have little beer bellies…dont expect a Victorias secret model when ya no Calvin Klein model yourself …..
Now you are being rude as opposed to direct! As Rochejagu said: “Its not what you say but how you say it”.
I agree that Albert Heijn is nothing like Waitrose but then again Waitrose is really quite expensive. Is AH really that bad or is it just not what you are used to? Not everything can be the same as in your home country so you should show a little open mindedness .. Also maybe you can buy the products you are looking for at biological/ecological or specialist delicatessen stores? Or if you live in Amsterdam (or Haarlem) then Marqt might be something for you?
(I meant Jim not Guido)
Music in Dutch language is indeed crap, food sucks (but not my Mothers), Supermarkets aren’t that bad…just a lot of candy, Dressing is bad, but the English and Americans dress worst….
As a Dutch guy (living in Amsterdam) I was/still am pleasantly surprised each time I go back to London about how the people dress themselves. Even the men take great care of what they are wearing and how they are wearing it… in general that is, of course there is always the exception to the rule. (I’m talking about London here, not the UK in general, I wouldn’t know since I haven’t visited much outside of London)
We can take it if it is said in a normal way. Not in the way written above. Also, even we don’t make a big list of nasty remarks like you do. You are free to leave the country anytime, how about yesterday?
Haha! Love it! You people get over it, why are we bad-mouthing Holland all of a sudden, So not what is was about. We are direct, take it or leave it!
I can’t believe someone just decides to write a whole list of bad stuff about Dutchies, pfff, how rude!
@Jim
Fashion is an outer layer, an exposure. Dutch don’t like layers, we like being straight forward (we can appreciate your comment).
Your food is shite for other cultures. Some cultures like to eat maggots, dogs, snails, testicles of a bull, termites, whalet etc..
Music, the same, based on personal opinion. How about Tiesto, Armin van Buren, Junkie XL? Not my cup of tea (I like progressive/alternative music).
All the things you mention are basically based on personal opinion. You have yours, I have mine and that’s fine. As apposed to you, the Dutch don’t worship easily.
Thought I could be `rude’ to them, as and when on an appropriate ocassion..dealing with the `rudeness…’, but the words just couldn’t spill out. But living here, u have to blend it that way in order not to feel `out of place’ and `offended’. another thing about the Dutch is (so much more to write about the Dutch….oh man….), they work like a Robot. The customer service of my internet service provider called earlier to fix some problems and which led to a simple request of them calling me back tomorrow for an answer as I simply cldnt call them because they have a centralized phone system with long voice systems in dutch, , hence, they gotta call me. But she hesitated and felt sorry that I couldnt understand their language and asked me to log in to their website tomorrow instead and click on `Bel me’. (it means, call me). I said what for? she said, with that, then they can call me. ????? WTF. sorry but the Dutch’s mentality keeps surprising me on and on and on.
She probably meant it well, because when you call, it costs you money where as if they call you, you wouldn have to pay a penny.
But the ‘robot clerk’ has nothing to do with Dutch mentality, that’s the influence of big companies that try to reduce the costs with standard scripts. Typically telco’s and ISPs.
I’m Dutch, but the things you point out also irritate me. We Dutch like autonomity, but big companies like McDonalds, UPC, Vodafone drill people to work with fenced standard procedures. I would say typically NON-Dutch.
However, in the series Little Britain, it seems that it’s not only a problem in the Netherlands: http://youtu.be/9ROaZXdMLmY
I found that for the most part customer service was just lacking in general. To me rudeness is when I am left standing there with a shirt in hand to buy and you sit there on the phone chatting to your friend. As for them being “blunt” that too has it’s limits and I feel that they overstep at times using the excuse “Oh I’m Dutch and I can say this”. Do I think they can dish it out as well as they can take it? NO.. simple. I had one too many experiences with that!! My ex’s friend is a perfect example, he can say what he wants when he wants and not care, but the minute I told him to take off his shoes in my house he had a fit and told me it was rude of me to suggest this. Same with a lady in the store, interupting my personal conversation with someone (having it in English) she told me to speak Dutch. She had no idea who I was or if I lived there or was a tourist.
Nah, those people really were just being rude.
and that is coming from a dutchie.
I agree with Rood, that’s just a rude person, which has nothing to do with him being Dutch.
Yep, very recognisable. Esp in Amsterdam. No service whatsoever in bars or restaurants for example. Prob because they have a set salary, and are not dependend on tips? And yes, I dó think that this Dutch trade is overstepping the line too often. I do like ‘our’ directness but the rudeness … It can bow ur mind sometimes.
Ów, and I’m Dutch myself.
You could be right with the ‘tipping’ thing……but to be honest, when I went to New York I didn’ t like the ‘over-politeness of the personnel….it was to much…the truth should be somewhere in the middle (Dutch saying)
@ melissa: WTF but that’s your house! Actually in other cultures it is actually expected of people to take of their shoes when they enter someone’s house. This guy is a typical Dutch xenophobe who thinks his culture is superior to other cultures (unfortunately there are a LOT of xenophobes in The Netherlands)
I personally like the directness but not the rudeness. And a lot of Dutch people are borderline rude!
The Dutch are very direct and people from other nationalities might be a bit more (or a bit too) sensitive and when those two are mixed it seems like all Dutch are rude. I think the difference between directness and rudeness is partly the intention with which something is said (or the lack of care as to how it’s perceived by the other person). A lot of the Dutch people honestly don’t mean to be rude. So maybe if the Dutch tried to be a little less direct and other people keep in mind that it’s not meant rude then there will be less hurt feelings allround
I think xenophobe is putting it too strong (again that’s a very pessimistic way of looking at things, as if Dutch people don’t care about other cultures and think they’re less. It just takes Dutch people a while to ‘warm up’ to new stuff). I agree that Dutch people can react quite star/rigid to new influences but once they get to know the different cultures/traditions (and the ideas behind certain rituals) they almost always like them or at least respect them. Or at least that goes for all the people I know. Maybe you’ve met a lot of people who are not like that, but are they representative for all the Dutch people? I(‘d like to) think not!
@ Adriana. It seems u don’t like the Dutch very much. How can u survive in this country!
Have to agree with Jeroen on that, with Adriana hating Queensday, Sinterklaas, and the Dutch directness…
Exactly……so i guess Adrianna is being “direct” aswell…but cos she is not Dutch its okay whatever she says?!?! im disappointed in this!!
@Adrianna…isnt this the pot calling the kettle black moment?!?!
In holland we have more of an ‘everybody’s equal’ state of mind. So in stores and stuff custumors are not really ‘king’ any more(is that a dutch saying? Hope you know what I mean). Directness is also often to prevent people from doing something stupid a second time. But yes, we can go too far.
There was an english exchange student in my class, who just didn’t do what he should in our group-project. When he was gone again I told him to get back to school and do what he said he would do,, he told me I was rude.. So sometimes I just don’t know how to put it elsewise, cause I felt he had it comming. I mean, is that just dutch rudeness too?
But mostly I try to be nice, but I can not not be honest, that’s more rude in my mind. So when someone has a really bad haircut, I try not to say anything. But if they would ask.. I most often go like ‘mwah, I liked the old one better, sorry’. Not meaning to offend him/her or whatever, just because I think everyone deserves honesty.
I rather go for pizza then boerenkool, but our snack’s are awesome. And also, I think that it’s really dutch to get all the best things out of other countries. So we always have a nice mix of stuff(and people btw).
Excuse my english btw, sometimes it’s crappy:).
It’s funny this directness, my husband, early on in our relationship, would feel slightly embarrassed at diner parties where I would “revel” in exciting debates about religion, politics who to vote, why are you put on this planet & etc (instead of the English topics such as cars, house prices, mortgages & council bin collection!!! AND getting bladdered – even after 11yrs of living in Britain it’s still the same topics) ! Also he felt that most of the time my family just argued when in fact we felt we were having a nice evening with a lively political debate. He over it now and we made him an honorary Dutch person!!
I sometimes miss the directness and trying to figure out where you stand with people I feel, living in England, can be pretty tough. Since no-one is really like the Dutch. However I now have some really good friends – all for Yorkshire who seem a bit more “Dutch” nice & blunt!! Just the way I like it!
sorry if only I could spell
I actualy felt like the people in Liverpool were quite similar to the people I’m used to in the NL, somewhat more brash and not beating around the bush. Especialy compared to London (stayed there for a few weeks and their “reserved” nature was getting on my nerves since I had to hold back pretty much all the time) Liverpool was a breath of fresh air. Never been to Yorkshire but it sounds awesome
The lack of customer service relates (in my opinion) to the fact that almost every-one thinks “if you fire me, I will have a new job tomorrow”. Not positive but a fact reality. The dressing up (or lack of it) derives from the past. Calvinism, the Dutch saying “doe maar normaal dan doe je gek genoeg” (act normal, that’s crazy enough) is a heritage from the past. A dutch millionaire buying a ferrari is not necessarily perceived as cool – a Dutch millionaire drive a volkswagen brings more respect. (dandy behavior is not part of the culture). Supermarket-wise, very true that they make look products better then they are in fact. Having lived in Tokyo for a while (and traveling a lot), I have never seen such high quality level in any other country. And if you want to pay for it, you do have access to relatively high-end products (Marqt or much better, buying straight from wholesalers) The multi-cultural nature of Holland does enable you access to the best foreign cuisine (e.g. the only Japanese restaurant with a Michelin start outside of Japan is in Amsterdam). Try some Dutch lobster or shrimps, they are considered the best quality available in the world. I understand some of the arguments and fine with me! However, I do feel more comfortable being surrounded with honest (direct) people around me to know what they really think opposed to bla-bla. (and believe me, that’s not restricted to the Dutch…). It’s a mindset that many people have, it’s just that relatively more Dutch people think that way in my opinion. The good side effects of this behavior is that the Dutch seem to be an out of the box thinking nation. If you think you have a better idea than your boss, you just say it.
The Dutch speak their minds.
OMG I thought it was just me! It’s a relief to know it’s me and another couple of million Dutchies.
Dutch girl in Oz.
The point of the article is not quite “the Dutch speak their minds” but more like “there is a thin line between speaking your mind and being a tactless asshole and the Dutch often like to get too close to it” (or at least, more often than in other cultures)
Although, to my dismay, I have experience how certain Dutch people (of course, not a majority) who are proud of “being direct” (which often includes derogatory opinions about your country) can’t handle “directness” in the opposite direction.
Being a foreigner in this country I don’t feel that this “Dutch directness” is such a big deal, it’s just part of the “cultural divide”. However it tends to create awkward moments and an impression of arrogant behavior.
well said ignacio!!
I’m not Dutch. I’m Indonesian, but I like Dutch openness and directness
More or less, we are Indonesian like drops and hagelslag chocolate sprinkles as well.
Have to say though that there’s no such thing as THE Dutch. Holland consists of many different subcultures, religions, believes. Within 300 km by 150 km you will find extreme differences. Bottom line still is that “Dutch” have proven in time to be flexible (business), liberal (softdrugs, gays, religions), open (immigrants), generous (spending most per capita in the word on charity, EU support). These conversations probably take place in every country but I am kind of getting sick of people making complaints here (I work in an international work environment). If it sucks here, sure – fine, your opinion, but then just leave!! (or am I being too direct?)
Sweet, this is exactly what I meant in my previous comment: “we are direct, but we can’t handle directness in the opposite direction”. Pointing out things that most expats and foreigners dislike is really far away of saying that The Netherlands suck! but I find so funny how the most common Dutch answer for the slightest complaint about their country is “just leave”. I have heard it so many times already (to the point of being annoyed myself). Dudes, assume it,in every country there are good things and bad things. And if somebody lives in NL it’s because the balance between the good and the bad ones is fairly positive. Unless he’s a masochist!
I don’t really mind the directness of the Dutchies but what I do mind is that when i join them on being direct, then I’m being too bitchy or ofensive. They can be direct but cannot take the directness from others towards them. huh?!?! Of course it is not all of them! Most of the people in this country that I have met are genuine and nice, but every country/culture have its bad tomatoes! So why should this one be any different?
During my first few months here i had doubts on what i should think about some people I met. I really wonder if some of them have the slight idea how rude they are. I know some of you take the rude x direct as a quality but there are some things specially towards some people (specially elders) that should NOT be said or if you do want to say it, say it when you are alone with that person and not around a group of colleagues. I don’t know if those people have that sense of alert of how rude they can be.
Totally agree. The Dutch dish it out but can’t take it.
Rosana, concordo com vc.. e senti que as pessoas nao tem limite nem senso de quão rude são. Aprecio a ‘directness’, mas desaprovo o exagero que se torna claramente ‘impolite’.
yes but they should take as good as they give….
but they cant
why>??????????????
Because intonation and non verbal expression is very important. It is very subtile, when you grow up here (the Netherlands), you recognise these differences subconsiously.
A small, barely recognisable eye lash can make the difference to hostile or friendly comment.
You can say the most terrible towards Dutch people without upsetting them. But it must be clear that you are joking.
It’s like learning to speak the language, mpst will never master it completely, because it is not in your system.
You really, really want to experience Dutch directness?
Go to the Technical University in the city of Delft and speak to some of the students there during a ‘borrel’. ‘Delftse botheid’ (Delftish bluntness) is notorious even in the rest of the country, and apparently is contagious for those wandering around in that part of the country for too long.
I’m dutch and I never considered myself to be too rude, upfront or direct to anyone. It’s just that after i migrated to spain and met a lot of people from other european countries (u.k. mainly) I started to think about it. A couple of situations I found myself in made me wonder about people not being direct.
A good example would be the following. An english friend of mine had a birthdayparty for his daughter at a local mcDonalds (terrible idea). Since my daughter was invited aswel, we went to this party. Now the spanish staff was supposed to take care of the food, cleaning up the tables, provide a bit of entertainment, and failed miserably at all of the above. Eventhough the kids didn’t seem to mind ( they got along just fine ) my english friend was getting more and more aggrevated and at some point he told me with an obviously annoyed facial expression “I am not impressed with the service overhere!”.
He really got me there. He clearly thought the service sucked. It’s what his facial expression said, it’s what his tone of voice said, it’s what was painfully obvious to anyone, but his words (to me, a dutch guy) meant something like ‘yeah well, its not too great but i really dont mind too much’. So this got me very confused. Why not just say it sucks? And why say it to me, why not say it to the staff??
Another good example. I went to a local phonestore and couldnt help overhearing the conversation between a british customer and a spanish staffmember. The customer seemed to have trouble of sorts with his phone for well over 3 months. Apparently he’s been visiting the phonestore many times before to utter his complaints at the 16 – ish staffmember who hardly speaks any english just to frustrate himself some more because he couldn’t get her to see his problem and give hime a new phone. He stayed polite in his complaints all the way, didn’t get anywhere. Told his story once again, still no luck. Complained a bit louder, still nothing ofcourse. Ultimately he and his wife left the shop, slamming the door and cursing and swearing on the way out.
The slightly miffed staffmember mumbled someting i couldnt understand, so I asked what that was all about. It turned out since the complaints weren’t all that serious to her ( spanish get very loud if they want something done, or feel they’re being had which is probably the only thing she was used to. ) so she didn’t think his problems were serious enough to act upon.
)
Apparently all he had to do to get things done was drop his politeness, be direct and say something to the likes of “this phone died, i’ve got warranty, give new one now”. That would have saved him 3 months of aggrevation ( and possibly even a stroke
Other than just these examples I love people being direct. Why not? It’s the least confusing way of communicating. At times my wife will tell me “Je stinkt uit je bek” which means i got bad breath and should brush my teeth. It may not be something pretty to hear, but at least you now know what you need to do.
Another one is this. I really hate it when people ask ‘how are you today’ whilst they really don’t care how your day was but merely uttering a polite way of saying ‘hello’. Why not just say hello if you don’t want to hear my day was nothing special? It’s not that hard nor offensive.
So today I stumbled upon this blogpost and immediately thought, this guys’ article is spot on immediately followed by the thought… Thank god I’m dutch
Pet peeve of mine is similar to your “how are you today”… that when someone asks you that question and you reply by saying something like “not that good, I feel like shit” and they’re offended that you even replied with anything not positive. Oh well, stuff like that keeps life interesting
i assume you are referring to other countries where they ask that question such as the US. Here, they really don’t want to hear how you are doing…this irritates me. When Dutch people ask, they want to know…so, I don’t know whether you were talking about Dutch people or not but if you are, it is BS. Hoe gaat het ermee? means we want to know how you are doing bad or good….
In my previous job, there was this girl from administration. Everytime we met during lunchtime I would ask “how are you” and she would simply say “good”. I finally had to tell her: “You`re not supposed to say ‘good’. That is a conversation killer! You`re supposed to complain about your health, or the weather, or the phone company, or the government. Then we can talk about it and show sympathy with each other.”
Im dutch too and yes I cannot agree more..people are so nice outside the Netherlands
The good aspects for directness: you will know faster who you are dealing with. The bad aspects: if untrained..and you dont have a solid opinion about yourself: you can get hurt. Anyways..its not that bad if you would live here for a while..you will see that the directness gradually will transform into a national sport. Every culture has its own characteristics, and so do the dutch. Personally, I’m happy to have experienced this ‘difference’ by living abroad..even the homeless people are so polite here! 
Funny, this statement about hypocrisy. This is indeed how many Dutch people see it, and I know it because I am one of them (and don’t agree). The funny part is that the Dutch themselves are in my opinion bigger hypocrites than most, take the self-proclaimed tolerance for example. Clearly, any Moroccan could tell you how tolerant the Dutch are. Tolerance only exists in some aspects of governance (i.e., prostitutes and reefer), and certainly not all if one looks at immigration laws and the way immigrants are treated. Tolerance certainly is not a special Dutch trait if you look at how people think. Doe maar normaal dan doe je gek genoeg says it all, that’s not tolerant, thus making it hypocrite.
This is quite good to be direct, as Tom describe it, I am from Bretagne and we are quite direct and stuborn there too! Being direct just to be direct without any reason can sometimes not be needed; being hoonest is good, but if it is not constructive then why not keeping quiet?!
And if being direct is good, the only pity though is that this directness sometimes or often only works one way and it is more “do what I say not what I do and do even think telling me anything”! try to say what you think to a Dutch person especially if she is cought being wrong then refer to N°42! ex: in the line waiting, some tall Dutch sneak in, the “I don’t care if you’re here, I am going to get in front of you” type of person, you say something to make that person understand you were here before and they or ignore you or start to call you name, same when on the bike the person who have a give the way still cycle on and nearly get you falling, if you say “dude, you are supposed to stop here and let me go” you can again get a bunch of dissease name flying around, cannot the foreigner be direct in return then or is this just that a lot of Dutch (amsterdammer??) are non compliant with rules, in other words lacking of respect, and do not like to be told?
Amsterdammers are extremely verbal and have a reputation for arrogance. It`s not that they are all bad though. There are some very nice people in Amsterdam. I should know, I am acquainted with all three of them…
I’m Dutch myself, and I agree that many Dutch are very direct. When you grow up here, you actually get used to it. When you visit the Netherlands, you might find it shocking.
My girlfriend is Argentinian and lives in the Netherlands for 8 years now, but still didn’t get used to the typical Dutch directness. It sometimes leads to hilarious situations. Once in a while she interprets comments that people make as being extremely rude, while I don’t really see why. Then, in turn, she gets really defensive, which in turn, can be interpreted as being rude by the Dutch.
The typical Dutch directness, can be found especially in the western part of the Netherlands (in the provinces of Noord-Holland, Zuid-Holland and Utrecht). In the other provinces, this directness is less present.
finally! someone wrote it down:-)))BEDANKT! its soooooo, soooo true! and its very disturbing for all other, non-Dutch persons…although after 7 years here I start to realise that its is somehow contagious…grrr!
Dutch are frugal, impolite, and invade vakantie places all together in caravans with supplies bought from Aldi!
Now…. one can not be refined if one meets fellow dutchman in the campground…. can he??? There is your answer! Heel Mooi!
During my visit to Holland to finalize the expat agreement, my new boss invited me to his house for dinner. We walk in, I greet a 9 year old son who loudly states “wow, hij is dik.” Quite embarrassed, the new boss tried to overlook the statement. I pulled it out of him and was told that “I was fat.” Being true, I agreed. I now have a favorite sentence in Dutch, “Ik ben dik, maar slim.”
At 9 years old that kid should have known he can’t say things like that out loud. This isn’t the dutch directness as described in this article, it’s just a poorly trained kid. The fact your boss tried to overlook it instead of correcting his kid strengthens my thoughts on this one.
Your response (im fat but im smart) is a weak one in my opinion. I’d prolly say something to make the kid cry instead.
Even though your thoughts on poor upbringing sound true, making your host`s kid cry on purpose would not only be extremely rude, attacking his offspring breaks all rules of hospitality.
I live in A’dam a number of years and was prepared for the Dutch frank discourse. After awhile I began to recognize that many used this cultural phenomenon as an excuse to be deliberately rude and off-putting. They enjoyed the sense of power it gave them to poke and prod. They’d smile like it was cute; it wasn’t. As a guest in their country, I’d smile and keep my mouth shut, but to this day I am annoyed by the preposterous and brazen ugliness I experienced so oft in the people there. Not all, mind you, I had some lovely experiences too, but I left thinking, “hmmmm…such a wealthy country with so much to feel blessed about and yet daily so many encounters with bullies.” That Dutch speed skater — yes. Quintessetially Dutch.
actually, the speedskater was sooo right to say that (“are you stupid?”)….bc if you are a reporter you should know what the fk you are reporting about. I mean this nonsense for editing purposes is BS (their excuse for not having a clue). She could have said “we are here with Sven Kramer, winner of the 5 km gold”….but she actually had no clue who she was talking to, as is general with these ditzy reporters in the US. So…kudos to Sven..that was absolutely brilliant.
I am going to try to put this politely. I am merely trying to express how I feel about your post, Dennis, without trying to get into a flaming row or anything. I respect your opinion and everyone has his own truth and reality, but:
Your post is exactly the polarising statement that this country is full of. And it’s getting ever worse. People are just thinking of themselves without considering other people.
No, he was not right to handle that situation like that. It show that he thinks he’s some sort of God. But he isn’t. He should have just stated his name and country and what he just had won. And think whatever he wanted to himself. I agree with Lola here. It is typically Dutch and it’s downright rude. I know Kramer has worked his arse off to accomplish what de did, and yes, if a reporter doesn’t have a clue, that’s rude too. But all of that does not grant him the right to put them off like that.
Some people just don’t give a damn. They’ll shove you over and be proud of it, mixing up assertiveness with aggression.
I’m just glad Lola has had some lovely experiences too. Fortunately not all people alike. Just wondering, Lola, what did / do you think of the Dutch / Amsterdam sense of humour?
As a Dutchy living in rural England, I cannot tell you how much I miss our directness since I always have to guess what people really mean here. I miss AH, I miss the ‘gezelligheid’, walk in have a coffee at a friends house. I miss to go out in my jeans, I miss the cloths shops in Holland because everything is real cotton, real wool instead of cottonish or woolish here. Do I have to continue…..
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I’m Dutch and I live in Texas, and the very first evening my American husband and I went out with some of his friends, one of them mentioned the death penalty. So I started to debate it with him, and within minutes he was completely pissed off, took it all personally and walked away! And yes, with my directness I often put my foot in my mouth or seriously thought someone meant what they said when they didn’t. I took a while to read between the lines…
I think it really depends on which part of NL the Dutchies we met are from.I got to know my bf who is from the east of NL,among him and his friends I’d say they are being straight and honest with their opinions.No beating around the bush and no offensive sort of remarks/opinions.
However I ever encounter 2 Dutch ladies who were travelling in Singapore.Now those two were blunt/brash down right rude! Why? simply because they had no right to butt into my conversation with my bf and then seeing that he had gone to settle the bill. They had the nerve to ask me a personal question! ‘Are you going to marry him?’ To which I stared point blank and responded ‘Well,if he finds me worth all the trouble just to come here (Singapore) from NL to meet me every 3 months…then the answer is yes’. That did it.And I even told my bf about it after we walked a bit further,his response? ‘Yeah,typical city Dutch’ as he shakes his head.Pfffft
Gewoon…….
As a confirmation of what some people said about the people in the west of the Netherlands vs The Rest, I’ll tell you this story.
I’m from the south of NL (so that belongs to The Rest) and a couple of years ago I visited a friend of mine in Amsterdam (part of the west). We decided to go to a ‘eetcafé’ (i.e. a bar where you can have a simple dinner too). And while we were sitting there and talking about various kinds of things, a guy came to our table and said to us: “Hi guys, me and my friends are discussing what you guys do for a living and I think you (he pointed at my friend) are a bank employee. And you (he pointed at me) must be a high school teacher or something like that.”
My friend saw that I was speechless, so he answered for himself and for me. After the guy had gone, I asked my friend what he thought of that. “Well, I have been asked stranger questions here…”
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As my name shows beyond any reasonable doubt, I’m Dutch. I was saddened to read how hurt non-Dutch people living in the Netherlands are by what most born-and-bred Dutch people would consider a harmless way of interacting – indeed, the only way we know how to be, basically. I am so, so sorry, because I know I’ve given offense on numerous occasions without meaning to.
I’ve come across the directness thing when living in different countries and however hard I try to strike the right balance between politeness, saving face and conveying my honest opinion to those who are important to me, I still tend to end up on the too direct end of the scale. My parents always told me: “you might not like to hear this, but at least we’ll be honest with you.” So to me, directness to the point of rudeness is a true sign of love and caring. Why risk somebody’s anger if you they are not important to you?
What shocked and saddened me most in the comments is the reaction “they can dish it, but they can’t take it”. This is quite at odds with the fair and open way I like to look at my countrymen and does not make for a pleasant environment for people moving to the Netherlands. So I’ve been thinking about this a lot.
We do tend to have “long toes”, ie, be sensitive. It might be, that we don’t bear grudges, so getting into an argument is not as bad as it is in other countries. There is no sustained feeling of hostility. It might also be that the Dutch directness isn’t as clear cut as it sometimes seems – there’s a lot of nuance to what is being said to whom and how. Because it is a mode of communication that is utterly foreign to basically all other nationalities, maybe the subtleties are less readily picked up on? As I wrote above, directness in certain cases is a sign of love and affection, at least in my family. Also, it might be a well-intentioned attempt to invite an open discussion? It could be hard for a non-Dutch person to then react in the apprioriate direct-but-not-offensive-way – since they do find it offensive. And maybe in their country there is no such thing as a direct-but-not-offensive way?
When I talk to Belgian people, I make a conscious effort to lower my voice, since they are more soft-spoken. When speaking with British or Scandinavian people, I try to wait with my reply until they have fully finished their sentences (in the Netherlands it’s common to start your reply while the other person is still ending their last sentence – it is not impolite, but seen as a mark of great enthusiasm). I do this regardless of the place where I meet them, since I really do not want to antagonize anybody. When speaking with a fellow Dutchman however, I relax and give them a piece of my mind. Sometimes a non-Dutch person is caught in the middle, for which I apologize.
The kind of discussions on this weblog are good for understanding different point of views and for enabling us to talk to one another across our cultural differences, without getting bogged down in the outward appearances. Really, this way we get to know the person, without our different cultures standing in the way. Thank you for sharing your insights into our Dutch cultural psyche!
PS. I am however, I now realize, of the variety of Dutch people who think it is okay to ask you a personal question (such as your nationality or your job, not your marital status or whether your bf is going to propose!) when you are in a public place such as a bar (not when you’re having a meal with your friends!) This is not a typical Dutch trait (I think) but due to me being morbidly curious. I had not realized this was in the “rude”-category. I will watch my questions more carefully!
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Dear people,
From all the posts of people who moved here from other countries, it seems that Dutch culture (omgangsvormen) is especially hard to get. That there is a huge gap between the Dutch and the rest of the world.
I think it is necesary to see things in a bigger perspective.
I think that every person moving from one country/culture to the other will find differences in how people act and how people talk to eachother. It is not strange at all that in another culture, there is another way of communicating. Some cultures are closer to eachother, some ar further away from eachother. I personally think that people should try their best to adapt to the dominant culture. For it is respectless to force your way of interacting on to people in a country that is theirs.
I am not at all a racist or an immigrant hater. I love to meet people from all over the world, and I have no negative feelings when coming across immigrants or their children. I don’t want everyone to act the same and to hide where they are from, but I do think people should adapt to what is there already.
when I am in another country, I do my best to live up to the cultural expectations there. Sometimes this is easy, when the differences are small or clear to me and i KNOW how to act (Romania, Germany). Sometimes it’s hard, when I am confused and it is not clear to me how I should act (Scotland, Portugal, France).
I know that a lot of dutch people act ignorant, rude, impolite etc. in other countries. But I also see:
- Brittisch people living in southern Portugal for years without learning to speak Portuguese, without any effort to relate to the Portuguese culture.
- People from a German minority in Romania thinking they are far above Romanians and using only German names for places, even though they are less then 1% of the people living there.
These are both LANGUAGE issues that cause a lot of misunderstanding.
It seems to me sometimes that different cultures are simply bound to clash and to disrespect eachother. But I will allways try to understand people.
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I was born and raised in the Netherlands and have been living in the UK for about 3,5 years now. Recently it was pointed out to me some people have issues by the way I speak. Which, basically means, how I voice my oppinions. At first I didn’t even think about it but the more I did, the more I realised that what people must have meant is my directness and me saying things the way I see and feel them and not being shy. And now I am actually the one feeling offended…. Because it is just the way I am and the only way I ever plan on being and when it comes to the overexagerated English politeness… well…. I’ll leave you to imagine the appropriate Dutch reaction…
I’m Dutch and I’m following the Leveson inquiry with interest. I’m rather amused by the barristers ,Robert Jay and particularly David Barr. They are very polite and soft spoken but when a witness does or says something that is out of order, they politely will say something about it, but at the same time I can almost hear the sound of a whip. It’s really subtle and I think, I would not notice that kind of subtlety during a normal everyday conversation.
So, let’s see… You feel offended because people don’t take you for who you are, but you can’t take it if people have issues with the way you address them. That means you don’t take them for who they are. You must be Dutch… Not willing to adjust, thinking that people should be considerate with you, but not willing to return the favor. Thinking that the world evolves around you. Forgive me my directness, but I’m just pissed off.
There you have the difference: you don’t have to apologize to express your opinion. In fact an opinion is welcome, especially if it contains constructive critism -which your reaction lacks-. That’s a difference, you could have offered some tips to help/explain. You are probably offended, but as we Dutch say: “That’s your problem, not mine”.
It is typically British, that some one only recent (she had been there over three years) told Christel that she was doing something that didn’t conform to the local standards. It seems that, according to those same standards, it was impolite to give her direct feedback.
However, I’m convinced that there is a lot of understanding, too, in Christels surroundings. Only a few are truly offended by her ‘bluntness’, while some others appreciate it…..
This whole discussion basically proves that dutchies in general tend to set the margins of what can and cannot be said wider on many points than people in particular other cultures, but the still everybody is different. My experience is that what you can say or can’t say, and in which way you should say it, depends on your relationship with the one you are talking to and your own experiences. Even more – it depends on the specific situation too.
So whether something is rude or not depends on whether the other will be offended by it, and the latter depends on this person’s previous experiences (which we usually don’t know much about, but often with some clues, general knowledge and basic care we estimate).
Above are many examples of what to me is just someone’s opinion, no need to get all fuzzed up about it; but I saw some dutchies claiming it was rude. I also saw some examples of behaviour that are apparently things that happen more often but to me sound outrageous and stupid. I guess that people have various degrees of sensitivity to what the other can take or not. Large differences on this part between dutchies and especially with non-dutchies makes this only more difficult.
The Sven Kramer incident that you commented on is more a case of Sven being a typical dutch person trying to speak english
I would bet anything that what Sven meant to say is ‘Are you crazy?’. Although still pretty blunt, it’s not totally unheard of in english speaking countries to blurt out ‘Are you crazy??’. Especially when your english comes from what you see on TV.
But, being the dutch person he is, he translated ‘gek’ (which is the same as ‘crazy’) as ‘stupid’ instead. Stupid of course being a major red flag in social interaction.
Just my 2 cents as a dutch person that is married to an american and living with one foot in both circles.
oh please
only the dutch are allowed to call people BLACKS and think it’s a compliment
only the dutch are allowed to criticise people and their culture, while actually visiting and living in that OTHER PERSON’S culture and land.
only the dutch can colonise a country and strip it of ALL its natural resources and then expect a THANK YOU!!!
i could go on and on.
the dutch are the ultimate rippers off
traders off
reapers and killers
thanks to them that
the dodo is extinct
the niger delta is a quagmire of pollution
south africa, canada and parts of the US were colonised
the UK still to this day pays the Dutch royal family for ‘giving’ them South Africa and Canada
GO READ THE REAL HISTORY BOOKS
the first slave ships where theirs
They are the most ungracious people when it comes to receiving criticism
THEN you hear it
HOW DARE YOU CRITICISE YOUR HOST COUNTRY
HOW DARE YOU CRITICISE OUR CULTURE
HOW DARE YOU………
oh p l eez!!
been there
done that
for far too long
but then, what do you expect from bog dwellers??
people who say
GOD CREATED THE WORLD
BUT THE DUTCH CREATED HOLLAND
How arrogant
I think you are being a bit dramatic and most of your arguments are direct to the dutch folks that lived hundreds of years ago. That is not fair to this generation.
Also, I too, like many of my fellow countrymen, think “BLACKS” is not an offensive word nor a compliment. To me it is as offensive as calling a person from china/thailand/etc an asian. Please explain to me why you think it is offensive.
Well that was a load of crap. Are you done now?
Every country has some black pages and done some things that they are proud of. Every one of them.
Well, wasn’t that a mouthful.
The expression ‘the dutch created holland’ is the way it is because ( as you obviously misinterpreted ) much of The Netherlands was under water some hundred years back. The Dutch made all the water go away and built walls to keep it out. A lot of land was created by doing so.
Also, because of the knowledge the dutch have of water, countries like the USA often consult dutch experts on such matters.
Besides. The Dutch are not from Holland. The Dutch are from The Netherlands. Holland is just a province, nothing more, nothing less.
Thank you for pointing out the deficits of me country in a direct and what some people would call rude way. We Dutch would say that you are “ingeburgerd” (integrated).
Yes we are optioned and ‘Jingoïsmes’ is this arrogance, maybe but not more than the France, the British, Americans or Germans for that matter.
We never had a colony in Canada. And south Africa was takeover by the British 200 years before apartheid.
The slaves we transported and sold, we bought from Africans (blacks selling blacks) unlike the British, the Frances or Arabs how actively hunted for slaves in Africa . Was it wrong to transport the slaves? Yes, of course it was and when we found cheaper labors we stop. Yes slaves where to expensive!
the UK still to this day pays the Dutch royal family for ‘giving’ them South Africa and Canada
this is not correct the British swapped the colonies with the Dutch Republic in 1648 (treaty of Utrecht) +/- 150 years before we became a kingdom. So why would the pay the royal family
Yes oil companies are evil but shell is not more evil as BP , Elf, Exxon, or Chevron hoe are al operating in Nigeria. To blame shell for al lives lost in Nigeria is one side and false.
p.s how thus it feel to being sold be your own people?
i speak from personal real experience
we are from south africa
white people from south africa
it took us 5 months to find a house to rent
whenever we called
they could hear we were not dutch
they asked us where are you from
we told them
then we wait on the line
then we are told
sorry house is not available
after a dozen calls – I KID YOU NOT!!!
my husband called the last agent back and said
we will be coming to see the house at 5pm
you will show it to us
when he saw us
he explained
the people in the neighbourhood said that they dont want foreigners…….
and this was just 35km from amsterdam
north west holland
after 18months we left
and our agent said we were the best tennants he has ever dealt with
and he told us
it is a pity you landed in noordholland
if you had gone to the south you would have had a totally different experience.
??????????????????????????????????????????????
lived in Switzerland
Germany
Austria
France and
Italy
we have NEVER EVER been treated with such disrespect as we were in Holland
and i wont tell you the experiences we had with doctors.
it just left us bruised and shocked!
it was absolutely awful
Holland looks picture perfect
and that is how i will enjoy it
in pictures.
sure, we made a couple of amazing friends, but only when WE were direct with them and made the first move…. but boy it took the wind out of our sales.
Being born and bred south africans
from dutch/english heritage, we now know where the Voortrekkers came from and why they called the natives people of southern africa ‘beasts of the field”
go read the autobiography of David Livingstone.
I’m sorry to hear that but to me your story seems to be a lot of bad luck. Holland is flooded with immigrants and they all get houses. Many of them sooner then Dutch people. Renting a house gets easy if you know the right realtor-companies here. That could be a jungle if you don’t know the local rules.
But blaming all Dutch people for what some Dutch immigrants a couple of hundreds of years ago did on the other end of the world that were leaving Holland anyway is just silly. And you know that too.
I am curious what happened with your doctor though.
Hmmz, it took my mother 12 (!) years to get another renting home in Rotterdam. Every time there was someone else with a higher priority. Until my mother got sick from the climat in her old home.
@expat in Holland. I have no trouble you point a finger at us for what is mostly true, however, any subject (or ex-subject) of Her Majesty better be aware of their own rather sordid history before calling the kettle black. Or do you really believe the British empire was founded on love and kisses?
As far as our South African friends are concerned, they would do well to remember that “Apartheid” was invented under British rule and that the only way the Crown managed to subdue the Boers was by the way of concentration camps, which were in every way as horrific as their German counterparts of WW II. You might want to read “A rainbow in the night” by Dominique Lapierre, before referring to Mr Livingstone.
Is dit een site om alle nederlandse mensen af te kraken
? Ik vind het heel rot voor je hoor van het huis en wat die geene daarboven zegt maar scheer niet alle nederlanders over een lijn. Het kan me een worst wezen of er zuid-afrikaanse mensen naast mij zouden wonen ja of nee en ik denk dat veel mensen er ook zo over denken. Daarnaast wil ik graag iets zeggen over het onderwerp van dit gesprek ( waar het dus eigenlijk over moet gaan): directe nederlanders. Ik ben zelf een nederlander zoals je ziet opgegroeit in de randstad. Ik heb nog nooit tegen iemand gezegd : je ziet er dik uit in die jurk: NEVER. Ik ben het er mee eens dat nederlanders direct zijn maar er zijn grenzen. Wanneer een vriendin echt haar eerlijke mening vraagt over een bepaalde kwestie dan geef ik die. Hoe kunnen mensen elkaar vertrouwen als ze nooit eerlijk tegen elkaar zijn? Ik denk dat de meeste nederlanders er zo tegen aan kijken.
Ja Lisa, er zijn er een aantal te enthousiast met Nederlanders neer te sabelen. Je hebt gelijk, er is een verschil tussen direct zijn en onbeleefd.
Me being born and raised in Holland moved to Sweden a few years ago. I immediately noticed how rude I was being all the time. I was always honest and direct. It is appreciated by my friends, though when I meet new people I have to be careful with what I say.
I love your writing, you made me laugh out loud
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I find it unfair how we are all taking the piss out of Holland, issues that we face today and what is part of our history. Lets start to talk about the German Nazi’s, American obesity, British teenage pregnacy and binge drinking, let us talk about the poverty in Argentina and let us not forget the Euthiansia in Switetland.
EVERY single county has things to be proud of. Dutch directness is something to be proud of, and other subjects- maybe not.
I am Dutch myself, and now I have lived in the uk for 6 years and yes my directness has gotten me into trouble but let me tell you this; I am now known as the “honest person” and they appreciate my bluntness. I find myself begging my friends to just be blunt because if I put it bluntly the politeness and people walking on eggshells just gets annoying.
I am also known as ‘argumentative’ just because I WILL talk about things that actually matter. And to be frank British people don’t know how to voice their opinions, how to complain and will not talk about anything that could even be considered ‘taboo’. So that is politics etc of the table.
Being blunt is good as long A’s you don’t hurt peoples feelings- and so people JUST NEED TO GET A SPINE!
The Dutch people think it is acceptable to tell you and your country’s failings, out loud for everyone to hear, but when you bite back and tell them the problems with their own country, they cannot take it. They elect fascists to their parliament, but still think they are tolerant! Their TV is shit, so is their music. And sorry, Dutch people, all the world only knows that the Netherlands is famous for drugs and prostitutes. That’s because we never think about you, but you always think about us!
You are like living with a bloody chihuahua.. Insignificant little runts…but think you should be heard…God god..you were not even invited to the G20 ever mind the G7!
Yes I have a grudge. My ex was Dutch and lived in London with me. His father was the most outspoken, snobbish person you could ever meet. Yet he was fired twice, from a company in Amsterdam and one here in London for stealing. Yet he never apologised, and still continued to put the British down. His wife was/is the most frigid person on planet earth, opinionated to the extreme..On my trips to Amsterdam, there was never any customer service anywhere..Their food is truly awful , fried, overcooked..chips at war..bitter balls..urgh!
jesus christ, if you need to vent about your ex, do it somewhere else please. Assholes are everywhere, as are thieves, so don’t use this one experience you’ve had to condemn all the Dutch.
Thank you Aldiedingen……..the dude above apparently has still some sort of anger towards his ex and therefor feels the need to bash all the Dutch…maybe therapy a good idea?!
Oh, let’s not make assumptions on that all-coveringt little story shall we
Yeah Steve sure
Hahahaha, awesome. My friend, you have been poorly mislead. Seems like you went to the wrong part of the country
A direct person is simply rude and uncivilized…it’s like saying “You know, John is not really an asshole…it’s just the way he is, that he’s direct”. WRONG! John is an asshole because he’s direct…
You’re a true asshole, John
JK!
I am proud of our directness. HA!
Ah, the endearing Dutch directness.. My former neighbour asked me, when I was 6 months pregnant: ” So, is it true what I heard, that you’re pregnant? I talked to other neighbours and told them that I thought you’re just fat”… Thanks a bunch, haha!
I’m Dutch and I think that the directness you speak off is overstated. If you know that your speech isn’t that good. don’t ask the opinion of your peers and aspect them to lie to you. Lying to be polite is a insult to your intelligent in this case it’s sounds more like constructive criticism. Secondly about Seven Kamer versus the reporter, if you ask a stupid question you get as stupid answer. Then there are a lot of things you don`t ask someone because is considered rude. Like how much money you make. Last but not least we have a class free and open society and this requires a certain amount of crudeness. This will sometimes is aggravate by the close proximity we Dutch live to each other.
p.s
Rotterdam is more like the north and east of the Netherlands and Brabant, Limburg and Amsterdam are more like Belgium.
Being Dutch, I feel very strongly on this subject (which might be a bit contradictory to my message). I don’t like the fact that a lot of Dutch people are so rude to each other. Even worse, when you point it out to them, they’ll often excuse themselves by saying they’re being honest / direct. I think this is extremely rude; first they insult you and after that they make you feel like you are the stupid person here who just can’t handle the so-called ‘thruth’ (also, what is this pre-occupation with ‘the thruth’ being ‘harsh’ to Dutch people, expressed in sayings such as “de harde waarheid”?). I wished people would be a bit nicer to each other.
On the other hand, I also get very tired sometimes with more foreign and politer ways of pointing something out. Being Dutch, politeness sometimes does feel very fake and hypocrite to me. I have to add, I am often not aware how direct or rude I must be to other people myself (even though most Dutchies think I’m somewhat of a softie who should speak her mind more often). There have been many times I have been frowned upon in Belgium (country of my ex), because when while thinking I was posing a neutral question or complimenting somebody, I’d apperently had hinted at some sort of insult.
Reading your post, I actually realised this was one of the things my Belgian ex and I used to quarrel about. When he’d wanted something from me, he’d always hint at it, but I’d seldom get it until he just bluntly asked me. He thought that made me an selfish and uncaring person. I on the other hand felt like I was expected to be some sort of wizard who could just magically feel what it was that was bothering him. Yay to intercultural relationships!
Ha Nienke!
Great reply. Totally agree. You can be direct without being rude… Its one of the main reasons why I don’t want to go back to the Netherlands. I always felt like I had to be ready to give a sharp comment back. Because someone could say something very harsh out of the blue, catching me off guard.
I supervised several students and I was always direct, but (most of the times) also nice. That’ s what I’ve been told anyway. You can point out a ‘mistake’ or give a different opinion without making them feel like an idiot.
By the way, I’m totally loving the irony of all these Dutchies responding in a very ‘direct’ manner how they aren’t pleased with your blogpost (and they don’t even notice)!
confront a dutch person about being direct about something that inplies feeling or money, they are just not able to express themselves…and to get a reply or an opinion , takes long long days….
I always find this fable about being direct as an easy way to deny the fact that lots of dutch people are dramatically rude and tactless, like if they do not know any form of more refined communication…then they adress foreigner to be too polite, to be too soft to criticism. You can be direct while being polite…if you are polite and say what you mean everybody will appreciate that…
anyway they always know it better anyway…get used to it or run away!
Hmmm, there is a difference between ‘directness’, ‘tactlessness’ and ‘rudeness’, but many in Netherlands cannot see it. I see ‘since you asked me, no your new haircut really doesn’t look good’ as honest directness, ‘we don’t want you coming out with us tonight because you’re boring’ as tactlessness, and helpcentres hanging the phone up on you because your enquiry is not a nice and easy one is plain rudeness. Unfortunately rudeness and lack of consideration (or even awareness?) of other people would appear to be a national handicap, although it’s far more prevalent in the randstad than other parts of NL (I find people from the north, south and east far politer and more respectful). On the many occasions when I’m asked what the worst thing about NL is, I will say ‘the rudeness’ and people instantly assume that I’m talking about the ‘directness’. I fail to see what is ‘direct’ or ‘honest’ about, for example, not saying ‘thankyou’ or ‘sorry’, talking loudly over you in a group conversation, shop owners chatting away and ignoring the customer standing waiting in front of them etc. If this is ‘Dutch behaviour’ then there’s no way I’m taking part, I feel there’s much more to gain by being polite, respectful and tactful to people, and reading people here defending their rudeness is like reading Italians defending their pushing to the front of queues. And as we can see from the comments, there are Dutch people who will love to give their tactless opinion on anything, but hate to receive such comments in return which may prick their illusion of their own ‘perfectness’. Instead of integration courses for foreigners into Dutch society, how about integration courses for Dutchies into polite society?
Pfft getting so tired of all the people on here bitching about the Dutch and their culture ect….hey you dont have to come here…..you dont have to live here….its a free world if ya dont want to live here than get out….I just dont get how the top line says “the Dutch directness” turns into what we did hunderd of years ago and where the heck did the food in Holland come from…what the heck does that have to do with Dutch directness?!?!
Seriously people….why y’all hatin???
*NOTE—> oh yea and all the people that are hating on the Dutch are being quiet “DIRECT” themselfs….
I’ve been living in Canada for the past two year. Oh my are these Canadians polite! Growing up in the Netherlands I learned that you only apologized when actually you did something (very) wrong, and that it means a lot if some would say out loud ‘ I’m sorry’. Here they say it all the time, even if they’re not even doing something wrong: Squeezing through a crowd of people on the subway to get out: how else do you get out?? But if it’s just a bit too rough just apologize and smile. Doesn’t cost a dime and might even get you a smile back. I like it! It’s like saying ‘ oops’ and being polite, well-mannered, civilized. Instead of yelling: ‘Didn’t you see me coming? Why the h*ll did you just bump into me?!’ (admit; 99.9% of the times that happens by accident, right?).
On the other hand… sometimes I still get tired of people not just addressing something that bothers them. If you just say it in a early stage it isn’t a big deal at all! Why wait till frustration really build up until you say something? Than it’s a HUGE deal with people feeling ‘insulted’ about confronting them like that.. while it just started out as something small. “Oh really? I had no idea, oops, sorry.” Actually, I had several friends telling me that my straightforwardness was so refreshing.
What I learned here is that you don’t always HAVE to give your opinion and that apologizing can make you gain so much more than it costs (not a dime, maybe I little pride at times..). It wasn’t easy for this Dutch girl to just ‘let go’ of certain things, but I’m learning. And I actually feel like a nice person than I was before.
Tja het is inderdaat waar het is verheven tot nationale volks sport tot op het hoogste nievo (het zit helaas in onze “Gene”)
http://www.zie.nl/video/algemeen/Wilders-tegen-Rutte-Doe-even-normaal-man/m1ezv9bf17m9
Prachtig toch
M.v.g..
There are several factors that contribute to Dutch ‘directness’. The first is that they are a nation of farmers and merchants. They do not have an upper class they look up to, and try to emulate, like the British. They are not well mannered, meaning they do not possess studied mannerisms to fall back to in any given situation. Nor do they develop them, because they don`t have much need to. This may sound at odds with anecdotes above, but the Dutch are in fact extremely non-confrontational. Living in the densest populated country after China (no, Mexico-city is not a country) their personal bubble is quite small and they are easily intimidated by foreigners` assumptions on how they should behave because ‘that is how civilized countries do it’. At which point the Dutch, having no manners to help them out, will simply dig in their heels and navigate their way out with horns lowered.
The subtle ways in which the Dutch circumvene each other`s interests, though apparent to most Dutch, are nigh invisible for outsiders. The Dutch`s stubborn refusal to do certain things (‘dat doe je niet’) and their meeting culture – endlessly talking things over – are testament to this non-confrontationalism.
Dutch are also pragmatists, in that they don`t insist on using their own language even in their own country, when they speak the other`s language better than the other speaks theirs (a situation they are all too familiar with) leaving the high ground of subtle courtesy to the other. What is true about not having mannerisms in their own language, is even more true in another. Worse, clumsily formulating their thoughts in a foreign language will sometimes lead them to places they weren`t expecting to go. A quick sidenote on Dutch` mastery of foreign languages: While many of them like to believe that all the Dutch speak English, this simply isn`t true (their politicians being a good example). All Dutch speak some English, though, and most of it comes from watching action movies. If this is to blunt for you, you`re better off talking Dutch, but only slightly. The Dutch simply aren`t skilled conversationalists.
Another point to be considered, though, is that expats who`ve lived in the Netherlands freely speak their mind about the Dutch without really knowing what they are talking about. A book about ‘the Dutch’ written by an American-British couple enthusiastically blurbed their expertise on the subject by listing all the Dutch towns they had lived in – each single one of which was a suburb of Amsterdam! Amsterdam – although they like to believe differently – are not the entire country. In fact they are hardly Dutch at all. The most celebrated ‘typical Amsterdammer’ is the Jordanees, someone from the neighbourhood known as De Jordaan, which name is a bastardization of ‘Les Jardins’, a quarter build at the (then) outskirts of the city to house French protestant refugees. That`s right, the most typical Amsterdammer descends from the French. The Dutch reputation of tolerance comes from accepting persecuted minorities withing their borders, in a time when Dutch prowess was without peer, most of which settled in Amsterdam. Now there is a difference between people who flee their country to make a living elsewhere and those that stay behind: the former are usually more affluent as well as more assertive. As a true melting pot, Amsterdam evolved manners based on the most common denominator of all the different cultures that inhabited it: arrogance and rudeness.
So expats commenting on the Dutch by example of the inhabitants of Amsterdam, are really commenting on their own predecessors.
Holland is a county (not a country), Utrecht is a bishopry,. Gelre and Brabant are duchies and Fryslân is the only kingdom within the Kingdom of the United Netherlands, a conglomeration of tribal ethnicities grouped roughly into a germanic, protestant North (‘above the rivers’) and a celticised, catholic South (‘below the rivers’) with a Bataafsch Mid-East and a Kaninefatisch West, both of which latter tribes were invited in by the Romans, in order to keep the Frisians out of their hair.
If there’s anything that I like being Dutch, than it’s “het hart op de tong” (the heart on the tongue). It makes things so much easier.
absolutely and there’s a difference in being honest or being rude, you can be honest en still be polite…don’t judge 16 million people as if they were one, thats rude too!
Right, I consider Dutch direct but open minded and willing to take critisism without feeling offensed.
Once I asked a Dutch friend of mine, overhearing a conversation with half-a-stranger:
“Why did you ask him if he had sex last night, that’s rude!”
He answered: “He gave me the answer.”
Allthough my friend is a little extreme, and being Dutch myself,
the answer to why the Dutch are so direct is:
Because We Can.
If you don’t wanna know, don’t ask !
That’s right.
I guess this is rude too
Depends on where you live in the Netherlands and what the subject is. In the west they speak their minds more than in the east/south. I have lived in the Veluwe for 20 years. I can honestly say that people here are not that direct and reserve criticism for the back room.
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I cant stand people that are NOT direct.
I dont approve of people twisting things around, walking in circles, saying things when meaning something else, just be OPEN and HONEST for Ch*sts sake….
Its one of the main things i hate about my inlaws (not dutch).
rthe thing is, if people are not direct, they are VERY likely to be talking behind your back!!!!!!
And I totally dissaprove of that behaviour!
if you have a question, ASK. if you have something to say, SAY it!
Dont talk behind my back , while smiling in my face, because honestly, I will cut you out of my life completely!
I always say what I feel or think, and i am always open and honest.
however, i personally do consider other peoples feelings, I will say things in a decent tactfull way!
But I WILL say it.
I rather have someone else do the same.
Because I have no room in my life for people that are dishonest.
people that are not straight forward!
It has nothing to do with talking behind your back, in fact In the international company I worked before, the greatest back stabbers were the Dutch, talking about others in Dutch so you won´t understand. Besides, being direct and blunt are NOT the same as being honest. This is just B.S…. trying to mask and frame a general arrogance and lack of manners, politeness and simpathy. Above all that what really puts me down is that a lot of Dutch people love to give their opinion, specially when nobody is asking for it, even when they don´t know you, so thanks, but no thanks!
Who asked you for your opinion? LOL
I was proposed to by a Dutchman and he added ‘but please do something about the weight’. Needless to say I told him where to go. When the phrase ‘dutch treat’ was created to use for frugal ie cheapness – they were not kidding. He was the cheapest person I ever met. Wish I knew more about their cultural traits before having met him.
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I never really noticed this until reading this blog but its true. Every time we have a family get together my opa brings up religion or politics and gets into heated debates with everyone else, and there’s no sense trying to talk reason over his over the top opinions he refuses to ever admit his opinions are biased (or completely ridiculous which they usually are)
That is Dutch directness!
Blocked by the FIFA, typical….
Like everybody says, I live in Nijmegen (the east side) and there they are less direct as in for example Rotterdam (the west side). A lot of people in Nijmegen actually think of people from Rotterdam being rude, so it really depends where you go in The Netherlands.
First of all, this is a great site!
Second: do not believe everything you read.
Third: every country and every people has its strange habits, especially the Dutch!
I’m from the North, Friesland – my parents are farmers, and I’ve been told many times “you are brutally honest” (even Dutch people tell me that). I agree, there are regional differences. I’m trying to think WHY I’m like this (and many Dutch are).
Being subtle, modest and humble is just not in my dictionary. Wasn’t raised like that. Never my intention to hurt anybody, on the contrary, I feel that honesty makes me connect on a deeper level with other people. Cut the crap, get real.
Now that sounds like a Dutchman Chrissie. That’s the way it is. Love each other and be honnest.
There is a way to tell the true, but it should be said. As the blogger above said, do you want the truth or a fairy tale!? People are too polite and a bit two faced I find here in Canada with their ‘politeness’!
When i moved to Canada 20 years ago, I was told that I was rude and too direct. However I adjusted. I learned a lot from living with so many cultures around me. Canada is a land of immigrants and people respect each other. Now I’m back in the Netherlands and I get upset about that Dutch, right in your face, rudeness. Dutch people push their opinion right through your throat. I prefer the Canadian Politeness above the Dutch, often, disrespectfull rudeness. When there is a chance, I’ll move back.
As long as being direct is really about honesty, it’s fine. But some dutch are just plain rude, even mean sometimes, under the guise of being ‘honest’ and ‘direct’.
Great post – like all the posts on this site pretty much. I wrote piece on the Kramer incident a while back… after much reflection, and living here for three years now, I am still in the “he’s a dick” camp, although I tried to be more diplomatic here: http://the5ringcircus.com/2010/02/24/now-and-sven-by-jeff-funnekotter/
The dutch have Tourette’s Syndrome, its a sad condition which removes their social filter and makes them throw up their minds… People without that, try to explain this by saying they are “direct”.
I´m gonna go and give an example of dutch directness, and show how it differs from actually being rude.
Let’s say my friend has got a new haircut, and I think it looks retarted on him.
Me being rude would be: That looks retarted on you.
Dutch directness would be: I don’t think it doesn’t look that great because of X and Y.
I can understand that the first option is frowned upon in many cultures, because it is frowned upon in our culture as well.
I can not understand however, that people would rather hear the lie “OMG THAT LOOKS GREAT ON YOU”, than that they would deal with some constructive critisism.
To me at least there’s nothing wrong with directness or speaking your mind. The key element however is to find a balance between honestly saying what you feel or want to get across as a message without upsetting or hurting people’s feelings.
It has to be clear that the well-being, care for or love for the other person is the foundation for what you are saying.
In the link above http://www.minispace.co.uk/blog/images/Translation.htm it states that if the British say “you must come for dinner sometime” they don’t mean it while we think you do. Is it so strange to think they really mean it? Directness may never become rudeness, but the example above -if true- is of someone lying willingly and directly straight in your face…
Problem is that other get upset or hurt easely.
They take everything personal.
We (Dutch) learn at a very young age that words don’t hurt.
I am Dutch. I was travelling in the US and had lunch with our representatives, US citizens. This big guy was piling up his plate from the salad bar, using about everything that was there: Mushrooms, bacon, eggs, salad, tomato, etc.etc. He finished it eating with one hand (disgusting) and redid the whole ritual again. Drank enormous cups of coffee with it; than he went for the Kings cut of Prime rib, a one inch thick peace of meat that covered the whole plate, with side servings of French Fries en vegetables. Coffee and ice water. He gobbled it up, finishing his plate earlier than the other guys at the table.
I told him: You are going to see the doctor soon!
He asked me why.
I said: He will build a second ass-hole for you, there is no way that this one ass-hole of yours will be able to handle that amount of processed food much longer.
He told me: That’s rude Peter
I live in Holland. I hope I never sink to the level of the dutch and become as rude and awful as they are. There is a difference in being direct to be helpful i.e. – You have something green between your teeth ( so that you can go and remedy the situation) and being direct because for some unknown reason they feel they have to voice an opinion Your haircut is ugly… that is just offensive and serves no purpose other than to make the other person feel bad.
they are just a bunch of heathen farmers with no manners and crap food.
I could qualify ‘heathen farmer with no manners’ and ‘crap food’ as ‘rude’ and ‘awful’. But I don’t, because I’m Dutch. Want to have dinner sometime? I promise I won’t say something negative about your haircut….
I have been acquainted with various Dutch people for over 15 years now. The culture can seem refreshing after you have grown up in the UK where people still seldom say what they mean and have to disguise their real intent with irony. I am British & it is true that people in the south of the UK are not all that friendly & if you have known people for years & years it is still entirely possible that they will forget you as soon as it suits them to. The directness of Dutch people is often because they are quite honest people, particularly in the north of the NL. However they are rather short on actual manners, the directness can seem rather teuotonic & rude, particularly from strangers. It is actually very hard to get to know people in NL, they will always treat you as a foreigner, moan at you for not knowing their language, pretend to not understand you when you do take the trouble to learn some Dutch and behave in a very stereotypical way. The NL is actually quite a postive place, but the spiel you get from people in the north about being friends with them being a real friendship compared to those fakes in Amsterdam is all talk. The self-same people stopped replying to my e mails nearly 10 years ago even when I took the trouble to call on them twice in the last decade. I will go the the NL now and again in the future but just to smoke some weed. I gave up trying to engage with any of them a while back.
I think you find out who your real friends are in times of trouble. I think it’s the same all over the world and has nothing to do with beeing from Amsterdam, Friesland or wherever. It’s about the person himself, where he or she lives doesn’t make a difference if they are real friends or not.
Yes, what you say is very true there, but the Frieslanders do give you a great big spiel about how your friends in Friesland are real friends compared to those fakes in Amsterdam and then turn out to be as shallow as people anywhere. I shouldn’t be surprised. The old saying that Frieslanders are hard workers and honest people is pretty much true. I have given up on having Dutch friends, it is very hard to get to know people beyond a certain level really.
My parents were both 39 when we migrated from Gouda to Sydney, (via, via) in 1956.
For years there were regular ‘coffee mornings’, here in my (late) parents house, where I now live.
My Sydney-born children were often, if not upset, certainly shocked!!! to hear my father and particularly, his best friend ‘discuss’. (This friend really was most caring; extremely fond of my father, to the last. ) Even one of the women used to have to leave the room quite often. I reckon that this was an example of what this “directness” “openness” “honest opinion” came to as these two old men socialised the “Dutch” way, in their last years. I agree with Derrick and Wilma and others.
Haha you posted a link to The Young Turks, I’ve been checking them out since 2008, I like the show! Anyways, ontopic, I’m Dutch myself and I find it very interesting to read this website. Most of the things on here are actually true (to a certain extent).
About the directness, it kinda depends per person and your “social class” (which doesn’t really exist here, but I hope you know what I mean). Some Dutch are really direct, others are ass-kiss-kings and queens (am I being direct here?). They will tell you they like your new haircut even though they don’t, stuff like that, just to stay on your good side and.
Personally I like the directness, because it’s basically “what you see is what you get”. Even though I try to be direct, I also try to do it in an as much polite way as possible. To me, if someone isn’t direct, it gives me the impression they are hiding something or trying to fool me.
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I guess directness has its time and place. I am not sure how I would feel if directness was the norm. A little tact and social nicety leads to more harmony and impact than blunt directness. I think I would be able to deal with directness if I were younger but being bit older now too much directness would tick me off because as a older person my ways are set and my convictions are hardened so if someone criticizes my hair or my language or my dress there is little I can do to change all that. It would make things more pleasant and face saving if it was communicated with some social grace or still better not mentioned at all. I guess as an Asian I come from the opposite side of the spectrum where there is not that much directness (Which is a problem too) but I am certain much directness will bother vast areas of the asian continent.